Episode 5: Immigrant ECBOs in Maine - Tête-à-tête with the Chairman of the Congolese Community Association of Maine

This episode features Mardochée  Mbongi, chairman of the Congolese Community Association of Maine. Mardochée  shares his inspiring story of fleeing persecution in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, finding temporary safety in Liberia, and ultimately filing for asylum in the United States.

We'll hear about the challenges Mardochée  faced upon arriving in the US and in Maine, including homelessness. But his story is one of resilience. He quickly became involved in community programs and advocacy efforts.

Mardochee dives into the importance of accurate data collection for immigrant communities. He explains the different categories of immigrants in Maine, including asylum seekers, refugees, and those with legal status through other means.

You'll also learn about the significant size and growing numbers of the Congolese community in Maine. This is especially important as Maine grapples with an aging population and slow birth rates.

The episode concludes with Mardochée  discussing his role as chairman of the Congolese Community Association of Maine and the essential work the organization does to empower and support its members.

Transcript

0:00

In today's political climate, immigration is often a battleground, with opposing sides shouting past each other. Here, at Luc's Two Cents, we believe there's a better conversation to be had. This podcast is your antidote to the noise. We'll be amplifying the voices of immigrants themselves, sharing their journeys, struggles, and triumphs as they build new lives in the United States. Get ready for authentic stories, honest experiences, and a fresh perspective on what it truly means to be an immigrant in the United States of America.

Luc: 0:32

Greetings from Portland, Maine, and welcome to this podcast. I'm Luc Kuanzambi and I'll be your host. As you well know, 2024 is a high stakes election year in America. There has been a surge in the turnout for the general elections since 2016. The United States Census Bureau, in its Presidential Voting Report of February 2022, Indicated that 154 million voters went to the polls for the presidential election in 2020. A steep climb from the 137. 5 million cast a ballot in the previous election cycle. As more and more Americans want their voices heard on social and political issues, the voice of immigrants, one important category of the U. S. population census, Falls through the cracks. This is happening even though several polls show that immigration is one of the top three issues in the minds of voters, and political rhetoric leading to the November elections is noticeably dominated by the immigration crisis on the southern border of the U. S.. This episode is brought to you by Xenos Communications Consulting, LLC, the company that facilitates your engagements with immigrant audiences. Stay tuned. Welcome to the first video episode ever of Luc's Two Cents podcast. My name is Luc Kuanzambi, I'm your podcast host, and I'm super excited to bring this episode to you. This episode is a tête-à-tête with Mardochee Mbongi, the chairperson of the Congolese Community Association of Maine. This is one of the largest immigrant communities in Maine. According to some of the stats we're getting from the organization, this demographic represents anything between 5, 000 and 8, 000 people. This could be between 0. 5 or 0. 8 percent of Maine's population. It is important to delve into this subject matter to get more familiar with not just the demographics but also what they're bringing to the table as new immigrants in the state of Maine and in the United States. I want to say Mardochee welcome

Mardochee Mbongi: 2:59

Thank you, Luc.

Luc Kuanzambi: 3:00

So I want to start by reminding people about the fact that this is a very new podcast. We started almost two months ago and we only had one month worth of production. Out of the four or five episodes that we put out there, we were overwhelmed by your massive response because the podcast was overnight able to reach 108 cities around the world and 11 countries on four different continents. We want to thank the few hundreds of you who were able to make downloads. We're super excited about it. And that was out of very little marketing efforts that we put out in the first place. So we believe there's a growth potential. We're still seeing the growth curve of this podcast and we are mighty grateful to you for all of that and we invite you to keep on doing the right thing by not just connecting to this podcast but also recommending it to your friends and family and spreading the word around. This is how we're going to be able to build a bigger intellectual platform and make sure that we can have a community of thinkers that can all contribute on issues revolving around immigration. So, I want to start by a little bit of intro. I'll make a very humble attempt of introducing this outstanding gentleman. As you will notice, he's not just an intellectual, he's a born leader. Mardochee Mbongi was born in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and at his core is a human rights activist. In his background, he opposed the Kabila's regime malpractice of endangering civilians. He spoke in benefit of many civilians. And it cost him his liberty. While in jail, on a particular day when doing a round, one of the presidential aides who came to the prison was making a name call to call out people who were finally allowed to be released from prison by presidential decree. And it turns out that one of the people whose name was being called was unresponsive. And that's when Mardochee had the brilliant idea of doing some make-pretend and he pretended to be the unresponsive gentleman. And this is how he got out of prison. They took him. And they threw him abandoned him alongside the road. And he knew it was just a matter of time before he could be caught up by the Kabila judiciary system. This is when he decided that the best move for him should be to abandon his life in the Congo, leaving behind a wife and children and racing for his own safety to a fellow African country after he had spent some time in the Liberian embassy in the Congo. So, Liberia accepted to grant him temporary stay for him to be protected from the Kabila regime. And you should know that this is not a natural destination for a lot of people seeking protection because Liberia as a post conflict country, it's a post war country. It's not the safest place to be. But that's where he decided to go and try and find safety until he was able to secure an American visa from Liberia and flew from Liberia to the state of North Carolina. Is that correct?

Mardochee Mbongi: 6:26

Correct.

Luc Kuanzambi: 6:27

Yes. So he landed in North Carolina where he spent a little bit of time before moving to Maine to start a process of filing for asylum. So this gentleman is bringing a very rich background to the table. He is very savvy when it comes to advocacy and he's an outspoken leader and respected among his community. And I can tell you from the onset that I as a fellow Congolese have a lot of admiration for him and this is part of why we have him as our very first guest on this program today. So again, welcome Mardochee. I just want you to take us into some of the thrifty details of your journey. How in the first place you got from Liberia to the U. S. and did you secure a visa? Did you not? And once you get in the U. S. what was your journey like from North Carolina to Maine? Just take us into that segment. Oh,

Mardochee Mbongi: 7:21

thank Luc. I'm going to say, first of all, kudos for the job you're doing. Luc's 2 Cents, it's a great platform where we find ourselves as if we belong. We appreciate what you do and we appreciate this work overall. I'm Mardochee Mbongi and I'm a lawyer by profession from Congo. Having fled not only the persecution due to the unjust war that we experienced at the Eastern Congo and trying to stand for the rights of those who are being killed for no reason, and of course, for those who stand for their rights in the capital city where we operated as the police and military were targeting them.[As for] myself,[I] turned out to be a major target. Making my way to the country of Liberia as you stated, this is a desperate destination. You wouldn't even think of it at first place, but that was the only opportunity that I had to make my way out of the country. The arrangement was made and I got there. I wouldn't even know how to explain the process. But when I got to that country, within the time that I spent[there], unfortunately,[occured] the outbreak of Ebola virus. I had to stay over a year while it was just like a way through, and after having survived Ebola, I was able to make my way to the United States of America. This is an untold piece of my journey. Now, when I got to the United States of America in New York, I had to find a place to go. I discovered that I could go to the state of North Carolina in Charlotte. I spent two months there before I got to discover the state of Maine, which is to me, like a sanctuary and the safest shore where I should be. And I came to the state of Maine. That was in April, 2026 and from there to today, I established my 2nd home in the state of Maine.

Luc Kuanzambi: 9:27

I think you meant April 2016, not 2026.

Mardochee Mbongi: 9:31

I wanted mention April 2016. Unfortunately, yeah.

Luc Kuanzambi: 9:35

No, that's okay. That's totally fine. We all have a slipup every once in a while. Yes, I appreciate the insight. Now, you moved from North Carolina to Maine. You're still new in the country, and you had expectations about America. What was it like, the emotional journey inside, if you could just take us through your mindset at the time. What was it that, that looked like what you were expecting versus what you did not expect?

Mardochee Mbongi: 10:01

So we all watched the United States of America in movies, and we all heard about all the good things happening here. But what we wouldn't know, was that it takes a lot for people to have what we see on TV. So when I got here, I learned that the journey is still long. It had not started yet. And now, when I had to make my first move, I realized that, okay, my first night should be at the shelter, my second night at the shelter, and continuously. And then from there, I discovered fellow Congolese and many other people, immigrants, starting their lives in the United States of America as homeless, because they don't have anywhere to go And I discovered the programs around. And I discovered that there was opportunity for volunteering, and I decided to start volunteering. So, it was blurance. There you wouldn't see any path as there was no clear orientation that you can follow. It's like you touch over here, you touch over there. And if you're lucky, you find a way to go.

Luc Kuanzambi: 11:18

That's very touching. I want to emphasize for our public our listeners and our viewers that Mardochee mentions that most newcomers, including myself coming from places like the Congo and some parts of Central Africa and other places around the world, end up starting their life in America, on the streets of America, as a homeless person. A homeless shelter is not the most convenient, most comfortable place to be. People find themselves sleeping in very rough conditions. In the absence of the best, you can only use what you have. And for Mardochee to be able to navigate this situation and adjust like most folks do, and then overnight, find himself in a position of not just serving others, but being recognized as a leader, because we're speaking to an elected leader of one of the largest immigrant communities in Maine and possibly in the United States, I think this speaks of his character and his potential as a person. He is bringing to the table a significant background in terms of legal education. Although the legal system In the US is very different from the legal system in the Congo, but it gives him a very good frame of reference for him to have some sort of understanding of the judiciary system here in the United States. That's part of why we're trying to highlight and emphasize his profile and possibly amplify his voice as well. Now, Mardochée you get here and you're in Maine. It takes you some time to get some paperwork, because it takes a few months between the moment you arrive, depending on public aid, and you file for asylum, and then, while waiting for your claim to be reviewed, you find yourself allowed to finally file for paperwork with USCIS to be working in the United States. It's not a green card, but it's a temporary fix that allows you to get by and be here legally. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what it was like for you to find your first job in the U. S., how different it was from the jobs you had in the Congo, because you were not just an activist, you were also working in the private sector. Tell us a little more about that, if you can touch for a couple of minutes on that

Mardochee Mbongi: 13:35

Good. That's a good question. I arrive and I don't know what to do, where to go until I attend some of the workshops. And I was lucky to attend a workshop from one of the well known legal advocacy programs here in Maine ILAP. I learned about the immigration process. I was served a booklet of 57 pages now it is over 100 pages to read, and that's a guide for asylum seekers. If you don't have a lawyer, you can use it for self representation. So I did. I had to read the book and I had to file my asylum paperwork. But I was lucky because I knew English from back home and I'm pretty much like in that environment. Even though the law we have in the Congo is Franco Germanic, and here it's Anglo Saxon. When it comes to international affairs it's resembling. Now I was able to apply for asylum. As president of the Congolese Community Association of Maine, I decided to launch a program that would help people early as they arrive to not experience loss of time. I was granted work authorization, which is called employment authorization document. In 2017 I was able to secure a first job at the YMCA where I did volunteer as a language facilitator and I started working as group program representative. So, it was from there that I moved from a job to another. Where I spent the most time was Abbott in Scarborough. And I did work also for the Salvation Army, Portland Citadel. That's where also I had introduced an English class program where I could teach English in our languages, like Lingala, French and so forth.

Luc Kuanzambi: 15:34

That's amazing. So you're just getting by. You're trying to navigate the waters and figuring out your whereabouts still. But quickly you find yourself at the helm of, programs as someone who's playing a role in programs, but people recognize your leadership and you're elected. Can you take us into that as well? When was the election? When were you elected as chairman of the Congolese Community Association and what's the demographics of the population that you're representing? Tell us not just about the possibility of numbers. I know when it comes to numbers and stats we're overall struggling because there's no, I'll say, aggregate database of the different populations that are arriving here. But based on the people you're serving right now, and your interactions with them and the various programs that you're rolling out, can you give us some possible estimates of the range of numbers that represents your population, and especially what are the different categories that are forming these demographics?

Mardochee Mbongi: 16:35

Being elected president of this organization that I represent now is a sort of a leadership acknowledgement by my fellow Congolese. Having seen me getting involved at the YMCA, and the Salvation Army trying to be a help to the program that I found at the YMCA and the program that I've introduced at the Salvation Army. Both environments helped people view me, see me as someone that could be helpful, and I was. The, when the time arised that we had to organize the elections for our organization, and just showed up there, and my people remembered all the contributions, and they decided to elect me as the president to represent them and advocate for everything related to the vision and mission of the organization. And of course, the expectations of the people. And now since I started, my first concern was to know, to do the assessment: How many people, how many are we It is not easy as data tracking, it's not something that was explained before and everybody's like trying to collect data I went first of all to DOJ, the Department of Justice, and to USCIS trying to check the numbers of the Congolese seeking asylum. And you will see today Congolese are the largest number of people seeking asylum right? And after that you see Angolans.

Luc Kuanzambi: 18:11

Is that in the state of Maine or countrywide?

Mardochee Mbongi: 18:14

in the state of Maine, basically, but there are Latinos and so forth also. But when it comes to the state of Maine, the major population that is seeking asylum is Congolese followed by Angolans. From there, you go to places like the General Assistance to DHHS and other agencies. It came to me like, oh, and of course, in 2022, beginning 2023, we had the same issue that we had back in 2019: a large number of people came and they experienced housing constraints. And then they had to keep them at the place they could have them all and with the conditions that we don't need to explain, but that was like a possibility at that time, figuring out how to have them housed in a proper way. So that was like the rising concern and it clicked on me like,"Oh, we have asylum seekers that are endangered and they need support." And by categories, we have three or four categories of new Mainers from Congo here. One category is those who have legal status to stay here. They come through the diversity visa, they're legal[lawful?] Permanent Residents. There are some who are married to American citizens, and there are also students who have been granted visa for studies, and afterwards, if they have opportunity to adjust their status, they can stay, but they are here temporarily for their studies. And then we have also refugees, and those refugees are here unwillingly. Issues arised in the areas they come from. And the resettlement programs came by and they took them and they came here. They like here anyway, but the way of the way they came here, was unwilling[involuntary] due to the situation that's occurred there. And then beyond that, you have now the asylum seekers. We're talking major numbers. And the reason they keep coming is the instability in the country and the unjust war that Congo is undergoing at the eastern side of the Congo imposed by those who want to take the mineral resources and so forth. So now, if I have to give a number, the range is from 5000 to 12, 000.

Luc Kuanzambi: 20:49

That's awesome. So let's say we were to stick to the lowest possible estimate number. And we say, Congolese represent a population of 5, 000 people in Maine, which literally means out of the million people population of the larger ensemble of the state of Maine, they could potentially represent 0. 5 percent of the population. It is a small number, but it's also a significant chunk because Maine is mostly aging. And the growth of the population has slowed down when it comes to new births. It has mostly been increased thanks to new arrivals. And that's a finding of the 2020 U. S. Census Bureau General Census that was rolled out nationally. Now, coming back to these demographics, if I was to put everything in a nutshell based on what you said, all those different categories, we can contemplate the coexistence of permanent residents and non permanent residents. Permanent are those who have a permanent status. It could be adjustment of status through marriage because they have married an american citizen or national or still they came here with a permanent visa a green card, as it is often referred to or maybe they came here as an asylum seeker, became an asylee and were finally allowed to be granted the green card and they have made a permanent adjustment of status and even elected to become U.S national U.S. citizen. On the other side you have those of us who're still going through the pipeline because we're not illegal, we have paperwork and permission to be in the country but the process is lengthy. Why? Because immigration is literally a vortex right now that swallows live everybody that comes into the pipeline because the number of people waiting for an adjustment of status or for the review of their case is growing by, by, by the millions. On an ongoing basis. And this is why this year 2024 one of the three top issues for the presidential elections that are upcoming in november is immigration. Immigration is one of the three top issues right next to the economy and and some other political considerations. That's the reason why this platform is extremely important, to try and put a lot of things in perspective, to allow for leaders like Maradochee to really give us a feel or a taste of what it's like to be in his shoes as the one who's at the helm of an important immigrant and asylum seeking community, if I may say, and therefore it is important to hear straight from the horse's mouth and understand what are the real stakes, because a lot of times what we deal with are soundbites coming from the media, local media and national media, and sometimes international media, and also the limited understanding that some individuals who might not be qualified to discuss immigration based on hearsay, the things you hear in the grapevine and al also personal bias or just innuendos and suppositions, assumptions. So we are trying to foster a better understanding of the immigration situation on not just this limited number of people like asylum seekers, but even anyone who came here, living here who's an immigrant. Anyone who lives in America who's not born in America is an immigrant. And this platform is for all of us. For us to have a place where we can have a constructive conversation without calling each other's names. So I want to get back to you, Maradochee, and I want you to tell us about the structure of your organization. How is it structured? Because this is one important thing to talk about. You're coming from a country that has issues with democracy. Historically there's been factors that inter alia, installed totalitarianism in the Congo from Belgian colonialism to the times of Zaire after independence, and even today under the new leadership. I'm not saying the president is a dictator, but I'm saying that we don't have the idyllic or the ideal democratic environment that we need for us to thrive back home in the Congo. And this is part of the stressors, one of the triggers for this mass migratory movement from the Congo to countries like Angola, and possibly from Angola to Brazil, Latin America, and coming through the southern border for some. Those of us who were fortunate to secure some kind of visa and finally made adjustment of status while being here, it's a different story, but not everyone is lucky to get a visa. You got a visa. I got a visa. Lots of people didn't get a visa. Those who never secured a visa are coming by the numbers through the southern border. So, I want you to tell us about how the community is getting organized. First of all, how it's implementing a democratic approach in its organization and election, because this is a significant contrast from the reality back home. And also how long is the tenure for? How long are you a president at the helm of your organization for? When are the next elections?

Mardochee Mbongi: 26:02

Good. Thank you very much. CoCoMaine Congolese Community Association of Maine is an organization formed and incorporated back in 2012. We organize elections every two years to empower leadership. Those who understand the intricacy of the mission and the vision of the organization. I've been elected back in September 2022, and we're going to have elections again in September, 2024. The elections will be on September 7, 2024, which means three days before my term ends. We're trying to implement this democracy mentality because we've suffered of that in our country. The past 60 years, it was like a chaos, right? We now have a new leadership with whom we hope probably he's going to do things accordingly so that the country can have a new start. But here, the people that formed the organization thought of democracy being implemented within the organization. I, as the president, will respect that and empower others to respect that, those that will take over me. We are an association aiming to become a nonprofit organization. We have programs that we implement to the benefit of the people and then those programs are focused on immigrants, asylum seekers who are coming because the asylum seekers are experiencing a sort of crisis that people wouldn't understand if they don't live their situation. Those who are coming through the southern borders have lost everything, and they've going through a lot. They come with trauma, they come with anxiety, they are lost. When they newly arrive, they have to experience the housing crisis. The first place to sleep, It's the streets before you find a spot at the shelter. So the association organized itself in a way that we can offer the first two nights to the newly arrived people before we find a spot for them at the shelter, whether it's single shelter or the family shelter. And then we went beyond that. If people find a spot to stay where to sleep. But what's next? They need a step by step orientation, starting, first of all, by connecting them with the social services around. We decided to develop some of the social services ourselves, whereby the most the famous one is administrative support that was developed by ICI and given to COCOMAINE to implement. And that program helps a lot of asylum seekers from the remote reporting with the Immigration Customs Enforcement and the Department of Homeland Security, first of all, for their compliance. And secondly, is to know when and where to apply for asylum. Thank you. And this triggers the asylum clinics around the states and mainly in the city between the cities of Poland, Lewiston, Auburn, Westbrook, and so forth. And now after that, they have to secure the work authorization after 150 days of applying for the asylum. Doing so, the People are now qualified to seek a job and then we have also the case management to help them find a job go over the onboarding process and start their own life and start depending on themselves. And I'm going to point out something that those families are coming. The average are families of 4 the father, the mother and 2 kids. But we have families of nine people, seven kids, two parents, families of five, six, seven. So we see a great opportunity as those people would really settle and start working. Become consumers and start contributing by paying their taxes and start investing. So this create a sort of economic opportunity for the state of Maine and as the ECBO, ethnic community based organization. See that early and organize ourselves in terms of having them prepared as the arrival so they can be the contributive member of the community or the country as a whole.

Luc Kuanzambi: 30:44

That's amazing. That's a lot of work. And I'm assuming you have a team working with you, or are you an army of one person so far? Good.

Mardochee Mbongi: 30:52

Good. I'm not a one man show. I have a team of volunteers starting by myself. We are all volunteers. And remember, we have an office that has three rooms and a lobby that can welcome about 25 people. And every day we have not less than 10 people coming to seek our services. Nowadays, we've even extended to Latino community. Our services are well diluted or disseminated throughout the community and people love the comprehensive approach that we have with them.

Luc Kuanzambi: 31:31

And we're going to get some stats from you. You will all share with us a database that we're going to end up uploading on this platform for people to be able to view some of the trends of the numbers. We've seen the tremendous work you're doing, and it's overwhelming because you get in early and you get out pretty late. It's the kind of dedication that you seldom see, and this is not a paid job. It takes a lot of volunteering. Your resources are very finite and very slim. They're slimming up by the hours. But you do work in partnership with a number of organizations. Can you tell us about your partnerships and where are your resources coming from? I'm going to have some very spicy questions for you down the road as a segue to the question I'm asking right now because we really want to address some aspects of the American traditional community that believes that, on the one hand, most of the folks coming here from the Congo are coming out of prisons, including President Trump has been claiming that they're coming from prisons and being released by the numbers in order to come and poison the blood of the American community. We'll talk about that, but don't touch to it right now. We want to talk about the numbers first of all the resources where, the resources where they're coming from. Who's funding your operations?

Mardochee Mbongi: 32:49

Good as a community based organization and not having its own nonprofit structure we are not a 501C3, we lean on fiscal sponsors. One of the major fiscal sponsors that the organization has or had is MIRC, the Maine Immigrant Rights Coalition. We have a number of partners, people that partnered with us before and still are partnering with us now. We have Maine Initiative that partners with us, supports our effort. We have Maine Community Foundation that supports our efforts. And then we have. D. H.H.S that supports our effort through our fiscal sponsor Maine Immigrant Rights Coalition. Now, something to point out clearly is that CoCoMaine did not have permanent programs before. We were functioning on crisis[mode]: when the crisis arised, then we were involved into whatever plan being implemented within the community at large. So our fiscal sponsor would seek funding and say,"Hey, here is what we have." And then a lot of organizations under that fiscal sponsorship would go to implement the programs. But when I took office in 2022, I decided that the community should develop its own programs and with the help of my team and the ideas from a lot of community members who don't want to be mentioned, they supported the idea that we would develop programs. And now we have 6 programs. The latest one is CoCoMaine League, which is the soccer league. And that will gather about 600 people playing soccer tournaments. Six teams with different nationalities involved.

Luc Kuanzambi: 34:41

Why are they playing soccer? That's one curious question Americans might have for you. Why are they playing soccer? Why is it so important for you to support soccer, which seems to be a leisure or entertainment program?

Mardochee Mbongi: 34:57

Oh, good. The entertainment program is important because this is going to help alleviate some of the anxiety and trauma people come with. And the people are seeking opportunities to explore their talents and skills they have. Now not speaking the language, sometimes it's a barrier to express oneself and seek opportunities. So that soccer program will help delight this great number of people playing soccer. It's gonna create opportunity for the social connectedness first, and the unity and a sense of inclusion and diversity, celebration of diversity. So we want to see all of those words in demonstration. We don't want to only say that, we want to live that, experience it. And this is going to start June 30th, which is the Independence Day for the Democratic Republic of Congo. Congolese people will be celebrating, they will have a barbecue, music and everything on the side of the Fitzpatrick stadium and within the stadium, we will kick off the tournament. So soccer is very important because if you look back to the history of Congolese people, the independence protest started on a soccer game. It is significant to us to play soccer on our independence day.

Luc Kuanzambi: 36:18

That's a good one. Now I want to take you back to fiscal sponsorship. I'm not just talking about your relationship with MIRC, but I also believe you have new fiscal sponsors right now, or you're working with, is that correct? Correct.

Mardochee Mbongi: 36:32

We have Immigrant Community Integration, which is nowadays our fiscal sponsor.

Luc Kuanzambi: 36:38

I just want to zoom into that situation. Why do you need fiscal sponsors? What are the roadblocks preventing you from having the legal status? The fiscal, not legal, but the fiscal status you need so far to be able to operate by yourself. And by speaking of spon fiscal sponsorship, are you talking about public funds? Funds that are coming from the government or are we talking about funds that even coming from philanthropy, non profits and other other generous organizations and individuals in the community?

Mardochee Mbongi: 37:13

Good, good question. If you have a program or develop a program, or you create an organization and you don't have your own a structure, a nonprofit structure yet, you will lean on the fiscal sponsor. You can have one or multiple fiscal sponsors, depending on the alignment of the mission that you have with those different fiscal sponsors. But the problem is, like, when you have incorporated your organization. You have to go through a second step. IRS will grant you the 501C3 that would help you seek funding yourself. If you don't have it, you cannot receive any donations directly because, by law, anything that you receive, you have a certain percentage of the tax that you need to pay over that. And that would not help you reach the goal. That you need that's why you have to depend on this fiscal sponsor who can legally receive who has a fiscal legal status to receive the fund and subcontract with you so you can implement your program or your projects.

Luc Kuanzambi: 38:24

I'm, sorry to interrupt you but what you're saying is very important because it shows a desire and willingness to comply with the law. And this is an important signal to send to the community that immigrants are not takers. They're not here just to take advantage of public funds or philanthropy. They are doing everything it takes to comply with the existing system, with the laws that are governing the land, and this is a very good feedback. I really appreciate that. I want us, because of the time constraint, to switch gears and talk about a lot more sensitive issues. Politics is always in the picture when it comes to immigration, and politics is a highly sensitive situation, a very sensitive issue. Within the confines of your comfort, I want you to tell us about what you think about the feedback, the echo we're getting from the media, for example: Mr. Tucker Carlson, someone for whom I have a lot of respect, brought up the issue of the Congolese populations arriving in Maine and in the United States on episode 30 of his new show on X.com. And the way he depicted us as a population was not ennobling. He was describing us as being pretty much oh, violent populations. People who are epidermic. We are prone to show violence and he claims that's the reason why there's ongoing war in Eastern Congo. It's because it is in our traditions, it is in the way we've been set up that naturally we are violent people. And although we can be nice for the most part, but we should not be allowed to mingle. With the American populations, by American populations, it really means white. I'm sorry to say that, but it really means the white populations of America. And for example, he claims not just the Congolese, but also other populations like those in Amazonia who have not been exposed to a Eurocentric vision of the world, they're more barbaric. He describes us and pitches us out there as a barbaric population. Do you have anything to say about that?

Mardochee Mbongi: 40:44

Oh it's a subject to worry about when people don't know you and they are trying to depict and try to say what they think of you. This is subjective. We are worrying about that. We want people to discover us by watching us. We want people to learn about us so they can know us and where we come from and which country we are coming from. When they hear about Congo, they think about the war, that war has been imposed. And when they talk about Congo, they think about Belgian colonialism. And they don't know that we have been a kingdom before Belgium came to colonize our country. So we have been a c well established kingdom, good ruling kingdom. So when a Europeans came, they established the rule of terror. And we know all the history. For Belgium to exploit rubber, they had to cut people hands and so forth. Now, if they tell us about the what they described, we have been imposed such situations. We did not cut our own hands. Belgium, the colony master, cut our hands. We are going through war in Eastern Congo. We did not start the war. We are the most peaceful people. We are 467 tribes living in peace and harmony. If you look at our country, we have four national languages widely spoken. The population in Congo now is 115 million people. And when we talk about the war, it's only in Eastern Congo. Multinational companies are supporting the war. A c ountry sharing border with us is creating chaos in our country. So we share the borders with nine countries, and we live in peace with those countries. There is only one or two countries which are creating chaos and insecurity in the environments where we share borders with them. And those countries are being supported by some of the powerful countries of the world. We don't need to name them. Now the issue is the Congolese people, as I described them they are the most calm and peaceful people. They are entertaining people. The country is so rich. When it comes to the forest, we have the second largest forest in the world. So we have a lot to offer. When it comes to mineral resources, there would be no[electric] batteries today if the Congo didn't exist. I'm talking about batteries of the future, given the mineral quantity that we have underneath our soil. Now the world needs the Congo more than the Congo needs the world. And the instability in the Congo is not benefiting the world. It's creating an uncertain future for the world. Now we coming from Congo trying to forsake everything that I'm trying to describe here, to come here, it's not because we want to. It is because we are forced to do and we plead the American people to see us in a clear vision and to look at our background, the background of our country, not everything that they are hearing from the media. We are people that have a lot to offer. And then for a bonus, we come here with a lot of educational background both cultural and economic.

Luc Kuanzambi: 44:11

Before we can wrap up. This is an important conversation we could go on and on for hours. Especially because this is a pound of flesh of my heart. But I really want to go back to some of the things you said and put things in perspective for our listeners and our viewers about the Congo, and why I mentioned Tucker Carlson and the misperception of the Congolese. That's the most diplomatic thing I could say about it. And just as Mardochee is saying, There's a misrepresentation of a Congolese population, the African immigrants, because there's a very limited understanding of all these demographics, all these people who are coming from Africa and from other parts of the world and coming here. Not just the people, but also a misunderstanding and a total lack of empathy because of the fact that there's no frame of reference for their situation here in America. These mass migratory movements and displacements are caused by situations that are not likely to happen, not just to the American individual, but also to the larger population. The personal challenges that many people are facing forcing them to flee from the Congo and from other parts of Central Africa and other parts of Africa and come to the U. S. or move to Europe are things that are not very common here on the streets of America. So you need to sort of journey from your zone of comfort and get into our shoes to be able to relate. And that's extremely important. One of the best ways you can make that happen it's by allowing for the voices of immigrants to surface on your platforms. And this is why I want to reach out to people like Tucker Carlson or anyone out there to say that you have these constructive leaders around you here, people like Mardochee, and you'll find that there's a whole host of individuals you could in person or virtually invite to your program to make sure that they can give you some echo about what's really happening back home. You did an outstanding job going to interview one of the protagonists of the the global power struggles that exist between America and and Russia by sitting with President Putin and asking him very sharp questions. I think you should do the same with the Congolese. And for the rest of the African immigrants here in Maine and in the U.S to be able to hear straight from the horse's mouth, especially talk to the people who have a macro understanding, not just a limited understanding. Otherwise, it's going to be caricatural. So we bid our fellow human beings, the American media, to make an effort not to come up with an approximate understanding of the immigrants who are living in Maine and in the U.S but rather get to sit and interact with them. And this is part of the reason why I've extended invitations to some of the media outlets, including conservative outlets here in the US because by default immigrants tend to be put in the basket of the Democratic movement. We as a community are as diverse as the American community. There's quite a political spectrum within the immigrant community as well. I'm not saying that to create a rapprochement between American conservatives and immigrant conservatives, but I'm saying that because there's a need for dialogue and there's a lack of immigrant voices on the media platforms so far. Yes I acknowledge CNN has got some people who've got some immigrant background. But you should diversify. And not just CNN but some other platforms as well. We need to hear more especially from the new immigrants. To have a conspicuous spot not because we need publicity but to be able to offer our side of the story. And that's extremely important. The other thing that Mardochee has been talking about, it's not just the instability of the situation back home in the Congo but also what's Congo is bringing to the table and Africa is bringing to the table. It seems that you already have a piece of us in your cell phone. That the device is maintained cool and is not exploding in your hands or burning in your pockets because It is using Coltan. An ore, a mineral that's mined in the Congo You might owe some gratitude to those underage slave children of the Congo who are mining this ore in very dangerous conditions, so that you may, at the end of the day, have the technology that you're enjoying right now. Don't just take a piece of us. Don't just get the resources that are coming from us. Also get to know us. Because we're on a survival mode the entire time. The reason why we're giving you this feedback right now It's because it's not constructive for us and especially emotionally it's not a good depiction of us and it does not please us. It's not enchanting and it harms us emotionally. It matters, it really does matter. That's why we're starting to give you this sort of feedback. Now we're about to wrap up. We have about five minutes left, Mardochee. I want you as a leader to tell us about the hopes and the fears of your people here in the U S and here in Maine. And also before you wrap up, if you can tell us the best way people can really help.

Mardochee Mbongi: 49:37

The best way people can help is to approach us and to know what our needs are. Which are the type of resources that we need, which is the piece of education that we need. We are ready to we are ready to embrace everything that is relevant to our growth and our resettlement here. We love this country and we love the people of this country as they opened the door for us, as well as we have opened doors for people coming from other countries to come to establish their lives in Congo before. We expect that people understand this and collaborate so we can all come to creating a pathway for people who can contribute.

@Nathy: 50:26

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51:32

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